Agnostic In Total Shock After Asking A Muslim For Proof Of Islam! Muhammed Ali

Opening: A Brief Encounter on a Work Break

"I don't think I've heard something that descriptive or that far detailed before. That's very interesting." "Ooh, that's pretty crazy." "Uh, I only got, like, a few minutes. I'm just on break at work, but I just thought I'd pop in and ask you a couple of questions, if that's cool."

"Okay, so what do you believe in? Because you said you're not Christian. What do you believe in?" "Uh, I guess I would classify myself, um, based on other people. Maybe agnostic, I guess would be sure."

The Causation Argument and the Need for a Starting Point

"So just quickly, um, basically the causation argument I'm pretty much down with. Uh, some people have like talked about, um, another thing, like if you were in a line at like a 7-Eleven or whatever, and the line was infinite, you know, would you ever get to check out? So to me, that argument kind of sets the fact that there has to be a starting point. So I'm kind of like agree with that as well."

"And like, you know, in some of your discussions, you talk about like, you know, you came from your mother, your mother came from la, la la, you know, everything that begins to exist has a cause, you know, so I'm down with that. So, so I kind of agree there has to be a starting point. There has to be some kind of something that started the chain. Mhm. So that's kind of where I'm at. And just like discovering what that chain starter is, if that makes sense."

Belief in a Higher Power as a Necessity

"Okay. So you believe in some sort of higher power is what you're saying?" "I think it's whether I believe it or not is like, I feel like it has to be a necessity." "Yeah, sure. So you accept the existence of a higher power?" "Yeah. There has to be like pretty much." "So that's why we're in agreement." "Yeah, yeah. I guess I would have to say agnostic then if that's the right term, whatever the term is, I don't know. They put labels on everything." "I mean okay, sure, sure, sure. All right. So if there is some sort of higher power is what you accept."

On Messengers, Prophets, and the Problems with Christianity

"What is your position on messengers then, and prophets?" "Um, I mean, growing up, I went to like, uh, the church and stuff like that, but it was just like really weird to me and stuff like that. So I knew like a little bit I've read the Bible, but um, probably in like 2012. So, you know, I'm a little bit out from reading it, but like some of it made sense to a degree. But like, again, when I studied like, um, like unknown authors and a bunch of errors and stuff like that, I just, I didn't connect with it after, you know?"

"Yeah, I've, I've read up on like Nicene Creed and like the foundational stuff. Like none of it really, it all seems silly to me, to be honest. Mhm. Okay, so yeah, I wasn't really asking about like Christianity per se, but more. Do you believe that creator or higher power sends messages to us, communicates with us as if as I think he could." "I think he could, yeah, if that's fair enough as an answer. If that's not copping out." "Sure."

"So you're excluding Christianity, which is obviously very rational, I would say, for anyone to do so since you're you're excluding Christianity since we know the problems with Christianity. What is your position on Islam then? What do you know about Islam?"

"I know a decent bit. Like I've watched, uh, some of your videos for a while and stuff like that. So like, I have a, a rough general understanding, like, um, like, I think it's like a healthy, like, like everything that Islam teaches. I've studied like I'm in agreement, like, even like take religion out. Like the no drinking, no gambling, you know, society based like that all makes sense. So like, I'm, I'm with you on, I'm with you on all that. Like the focus to me is, um, if that's like divine or not. MM. Like, I think even if I wasn't, even if I didn't believe like that lifestyle is still like the best choice as far as, like, I think a society needs a structure to survive and like everyone on the same page and like society is like, makes sense, right? Everyone kind of has like similar beliefs. I've heard that argument like from other people too. And I like, I genuinely believe it's like healthy to like, have everyone have a sense of morality, right? MM."

The Question of Divine Origin: What Prevents You from Becoming Muslim?

"Okay. So what would you say is stopping you from being a Muslim then? If you believe in a higher power, you believe in a higher power. You think the teachings of Islam makes sense, and they seem like they're things that you agree with, which would fit in line with the idea of them being guidance for mankind because they are beneficial things for humans. And the Quran says that it's guidance sent from the creator. So if it's beneficial things that it makes sense, and there's a claim that they come from God with that higher power that you believe in, what prevents you from taking that step and being a Muslim? What is the stopping thing that's stopping you from doing that?"

"It's like, I don't know. It's like being being sure that it actually is like divinely sent, I guess, like, okay, so that's where I struggle with like, I think it's feasible. And I think like the teachings are good, but it's like, is it actually divine message or not? MM."

"Okay. So what? Okay, let me, let me ask you, like, have you seen any evidences of Islam videos where I talk about the evidence of Islam or things like that, or you haven't." "Uh, not somewhat a little bit, but like the little bits and pieces that I've picked up like, I don't know if like, that's just not like. Convincing enough, maybe."

The Case for Islam: The Messenger and the Qur'an

"Okay, let me ask you this question then. Let me give you a bit of a like our position on the evidences for Islam or why we believe that Islam is from God or Prophet Muhammad is a messenger from God. You have a man who lived in deserts of Arabia 1400 years ago, right? Right. He's called Prophet Muhammad. He said he was a prophet, a messenger sent by the creator. He lived with his people for 40 years prior to him receiving revelation. The revelation was the Quran. And the Quran came down on a period of 23 years. A lot of it was circumstantial. People come ask questions on the Quran will come, battles will happen, the Quran will talk about them, stuff like that. Right?"

"So it was about 23 years and people come and ask a question. Revelation will come down. So the people come and ask about the soul and then revelation will come down. Yes, they ask about the soul and say it's from the affairs of my Lord. And we've only been given a little bit of knowledge. Then people come and ask the prophet. Yes, they ask about menstruation. So stay away from women during that period, right? So then revelation will come down responding to that question. Yes. They ask about a king, an individual who's called. Who is he who will give you news about him? Then the Qur'an mentions his story. So the Quran was like this. The people of the book will come and ask questions. Jews will come ask questions. Christians, people of pagan Arabs. People will ask and the Quran will come down."

Revelation That Speaks to Everything

So it wasn't anything that you can think about first and then write down. A lot of the Quran was like this — something is asked in the Quran, and then revelation will descend talking about it. Now you have this revelation that was revealed over 23 years. What does it talk about? It talks about everything — every single thing that you can think about. It talks about planets, stars, galaxies, mountains, clouds. It talks about beings which we haven't seen. It talks about anything you can think about.

Signs the Interviewer Had Heard Before

The interviewer interjected, saying he had heard about the Bedouin Arabs and the highest towers, and he had heard about predictions of armies winning and similar things. The speaker acknowledged this: "Sure. I've heard some of those — like the predictions of armies winning and stuff like that. I think those two things I've heard from you."

A Book That Covers Everything

So now the Quran talks about everything. If it comes from a Bedouin Arab 1400 years ago who was not a messenger of God, how many mistakes do you expect to find in a book like that? How many issues do you expect to find in a book like that? When asked whether the level of detail depends on the topic, the speaker agreed: "Depending on what it talks about and how detailed it would be." So you have 6,000 verses in the Quran that talk about everything — animals, insects, human beings, embryology, cosmology, hydrology. It talks about everything you can think about. It talks about the creation of the universe. It talks about animals and some of the things that they do, their bodies. It talks about ants, and it talks about bees and the production of honey. It talks about everything you can think about.

Now, if it's a book that talks about all of that and it is not truly from God — given the knowledge that people had 1400 years ago — take yourself back: there were no cars, telescopes, microscopes, phones, printing machines. There was nothing, no paper. There was no tech at all. It was a bunch of sundials, a bunch of Bedouin Arab tents and a desert. They would dig holes to have something like houses, and they would put up tents, and that's it — some camels and sheep. They had all sorts of superstitious beliefs at that time. They believed all sorts of ridiculous things.

Compared to Other Scriptures

And that's why, when you compare this to other religious scriptures, for instance, you see that they are filled with ridiculous things. The Bible, for example, talks about embryology. It says of the human being in the Book of Job, chapter 10, that the woman was spoiled like milk and like cheese. People at that time wouldn't think, "Oh my God, this is such a huge scientific error." They wouldn't do that. But today, you know how ridiculous that is. So it talks about the knowledge that people at the time had; it reflects the knowledge of the people who were writing at that time.

If the Quran were truly from a man living in that time, it would be filled with errors and mistakes — it would be filled with errors and mistakes. However, the Quran does the opposite. The Quran has information that today we come and confirm is real with our discoveries, with our technology. There are a multitude of different evidences. One of them is this: the Quran talks about things that nobody could have known at the time. I have given examples before. Let me give you two examples. I'll give you one example and tell me what you think.

The Story of Solomon and the Ants

There is a story of Solomon in the Quran. Okay. And within the story, there is a king — King Solomon, who was sent to the children of Israel, and things like that. Then within the story you have the story of the ants. Solomon was going with his army, and an ant screamed — as the Quran says, the ant started shouting. The little insects. An ant said — Allah says in the Quran — the ant spoke to the rest of the ants and shouted: "O group of ants, enter your homes, so that Solomon and his soldiers do not crush you while they are not perceiving it." So an ant spoke to the rest of the ants, gave them a warning, and told them to go and hide in their homes.

Now think about your expression when I said that to you — you were like, "What is this?" Imagine this is your expression today. You think, okay, someone made up this story. What is the story? You know, until very, very recently, we thought the ants communicate through movements. Sometimes, if you look at ants, they stand up and they move their hands or whatever — it's like they're communicating with each other. So there are two ways we believed they communicate: gestures — making movements with their hands or whatever — yes, movements. We believed they would communicate only in these two ways.

What Science Found

But only recently we discovered — if you have your phone now, you can go on Google and search. There is research in Nature, right? Nature magazine. Science and Nature are the two most established magazines when it comes to scientific research and discovery. If you go to Science magazine and put in "the ants are talking," there's an article called "The Ants Are Talking." And what does it tell you? It tells you that a new study finds that ants make language and noise to communicate. And then it tells you that we didn't believe they used to speak, but they are actually talking. The ants are speaking. We didn't know this. We used to think otherwise, but they are actually talking to each other and actually speaking to each other.

And that research highlights one thing, which is very interesting. It says they do so when warning each other of danger. Remember the story in the Quran — they don't just do it randomly; they do it when warning each other of danger.

The Question of Human Possibility

Now the question is this: if we want to talk about the balance of rationality, would it be possible for the Messenger Muhammad ﷺ to just make up a random story that exactly fits reality — not only that ants communicate through speech and talk to each other, but that they actually do it specifically when warning one another? Would that be humanly possible for him to do? The interviewer replied, "I would say probably not. That's pretty crazy." The speaker responded, "Yeah, but I wouldn't say probably — I would say surely. And I would say, if someone tells me only 'probably not,' I'll ask them, find me an alternative explanation. 'Oh, he got lucky' — he just got lucky and said the ants are talking to each other and warning each other from danger? Come on."

Clouds as Heavy and Winds as Fertilizers

"Like nobody will accept that, right? It makes no sense. Okay, then you have—for instance, let's give another example. You have the Quran talking about, let's see, clouds. When you look at clouds—I don't know if you heard me say this before or not—but when you look at clouds, do you think they're heavy or light?" "From studying science, they're heavy." "But if I were to look at them and was ignorant, you would think they were light because they float." "But it's not only that—I asked many people today and they still think they're light, because it's not common knowledge. So many people today still believe that, especially when you fly in an airplane, you fly through the clouds—you go right through. Very fluffy, look like smoke or cotton or something. Very light and flies, we assume." "Exactly. And when we assume anything like that, it's pretty light."

"Now, the Quran, specifically 1400 years ago, mentions that clouds are heavy. Specific description: Allah says, 'and He fashions the heavy clouds.' The Sahaba [companions]—the very heavy clouds. And Allah also mentions the process of the creation—or the fertilization. Allah describes the wind as fertilizers. Now the wind fertilizes two things: it fertilizes the plants, the pollen—all of that fertilizes the plant—but also it fertilizes the clouds because it carries the water from the water particles on top of the sea or whatever, carries it to the clouds as well. And it does fertilization of both the clouds and the plants."

"Now, how would a desert Bedouin Arab—a desert Arab—tell you about heavy clouds that weigh tons, by the way, like we're talking about hundreds of elephants, tons—we're talking about these clouds—and it tells you about the fertilization of winds and how they fertilize the clouds and how they fertilize the plant? How is that possible? That's who knew?" "Very—I don't think I've heard something that descriptive or that far detailed before. That's very interesting." "Yeah, that's pretty crazy."

The Expansion of the Universe

"The Quran talks about, for example, the expansion of the universe. When did we learn about the expansion of the universe? You had the Hubble telescope, which is something where a signal goes and goes back and takes longer or something like that, and they could calculate that it's expanding. That's like what—the 80s or 90s or something. So we have something called the Hubble Telescope, and Hubble received the Nobel Prize for it. And then through the telescope, we can observe that planets and galaxies and stars are moving away from each other. There's something called redshifting, where the fabric of space itself is stretching, and you can see that the universe is expanding—which is a very, very, very recent discovery that we have. The universe is expanding and moving further away from each other. It's expanding into space right now—the redshift and the expansion of the universe and the telescope, which didn't even exist anywhere near the time of the Prophet. How would he know this? How would he possibly know anything near that?" "I mean, people, yeah. No, they definitely would not know about that. Like, I know that for thousands of years, people have been looking up and studying constellations and they've got some good stuff on that. But as far as that, no."

"Yes. The Quran says we constructed this heaven with power, and we're expanding it—1400 years ago. And you have classical exegesis, scholars that we're talking about now, six, seven hundred years ago—we're talking about like Ibn Kathir—that talk about that we are expanding its parts, the parts of what we see, the heaven above us, sky above us, or the universe above us. So you have this one like seven, eight hundred years ago. It's what the Quran is speaking about. This is a description of prophets you have."

The Moon's Borrowed Light

"For example, I'll give you one more example. You have two minutes, by the way, just so you know." "Sure. No problem. We'll use that as the last example for it." "No worries, no worries. I said you have—this is my break; it ends when it ends." "No worries, no worries, no worries. Yes, I understand."

"You have the Quran saying, 'Allah has made the sign for the day and the night.' But when we made the night and the day are signs for—Allah says that He deleted or took away the light from the sign of the night, and He left the sign of the day clear, visible. What is the sign of the day? The sign of the day—when the sun comes up—the sun. The sun is the sign of the day. And the moon is the sign of the night, right?"

"So now you have two miraculous things there in this verse. Number one, it says that Allah took away the light from the sign of the night, which is what? The moon, right? You have Abd Allah ibn Abbas, which is the cousin of Prophet Muhammad, 1400 years ago. He says that the moon used to have light, like the sun used to have light, and then that light was taken away from it. So the Quran is telling you that the moon doesn't have its own light. We know that the moonlight is just a reflection—the reflection. So that's the first thing."

"The second thing is every celestial object after the expansion of the universe used to be a ball of fire, but then the energy is absorbed within the universe, and then they turn into stone or rock. NASA has an entire video that talks about the history of the moon, and it shows you how it was a ball of fire, and then it turns into just a ball of stone, like a rock."

The Challenge to Explain

"Now explain to me—just like I want—I want someone to just come, like people are watching. I want some atheist, someone to come and explain to me: How would it be possible for Prophet Muhammad 1400 years ago in the Quran to tell you these two things? First, that the moon doesn't have its own light, right? That's the only sign left is the sign of the star, which is the sun, and the sign of the night, which is the moon. The light has been taken away from it, so it doesn't have its own light. Number two, that it used to be like the sun and other planets. When did we learn this stuff? When did we learn that—like you know, about the Big Bang or the expansion or the things we're all like, celestial objects that were recently—when did we learn that the moon is just a reflection of this? When did we learn this stuff?"

"Now the question is, give me one rational explanation. That Prophet Muhammad would have known these things—because you said you want to be sure. Now you give me one, just one rational explanation. How would it be possible for him to have known any of these things?"

By the way, I'm just giving you 0.001 percent—point 1 percent—of the evidence, since you don't have much time and there's so much to talk about. Now the question is, just with what you heard, how is it possible that the Prophet would know these things if he wasn't a true messenger from God? I mean, that's pretty compelling.

Okay. What stops you from taking that step and accepting him as a messenger, accepting his message? Because you said to me the only thing that was stopping you is that. So if you see—by the way, I have a lecture on my channel called "Compelling Evidence for Truthfulness of Islam." I talk about some of the evidences. There's a lot more that I haven't talked about, but I talk about many.

Right. Okay, I'll watch that. Yeah.

So if you believe that this is compelling evidence and there's no doubt that this is coming from the Creator, there's no doubt that it's coming from God, my advice would be to take that step and become a Muslim. Don't delay. Adopt Islam, accept the message. And of course I'm happy if you do it now, if you want to. It's a very simple thing. You testify there's nothing worthy of worship except Allah—it takes literally 30 seconds—and you testify that Prophet Muhammad is the Messenger. That's how a person becomes a Muslim. But that is when you're ready to do it. And like I said to you, look, you asked for the evidence. The evidence is there. It's as clear as the sun that you see in the sky. It's only upon you to take that step and become a Muslim, right?

So is there anything else you want to ask about, or do you want to accept Islam? You want to take that step? You want to move forward?

Sure. But I've got like 30 seconds. Okay, all right. Let's do it quickly then, since you've got to go. First, say: I testify, I testify. There's nothing worthy of worship, there's nothing worthy of worship except Allah, except Allah. And I testify, and I testify that Prophet Muhammad, that the Prophet Muhammad is his messenger and servant, is the messenger and his servant. Yes.

And I will say the same thing in Arabic very slowly. Say: Ash-hadu an la ilaha illa Allah, wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluhu. Say that one more time. I do, I do—Allah, Allah—la ilaha illa Allah, Allah, Allah—wa ash-hadu, wa ash-hadu anna—anna—Muhammad—Muhammad—bin—Abdullah—Abdullah—hu—Rasul—Rasul—Allah. Mashallah. You said it very, very well. You said it very well. Mashallah, I tried, I try.

That statement just means there is nothing worthy of worship. The only thing worthy of worship is the Creator of the heavens and earth, is God. And that Prophet Muhammad is His messenger and servant. Now, I would love to tell you more, but I know you have to go to work. So this testimony takes you to Paradise if you die upon it. This is entering into Islam. Now, of course, you learn how to pray and you take everything step by step.

My email—I'll put it for you on the screen. Just send me your details and then we can communicate there. I can connect you to our team. This is my email. Yeah, MuslimLantern@gmail.com. If you take a screenshot or something—let me screenshot it so I can get it later. Yeah, just send me a message with your name, your WhatsApp number, or your location. I'll connect you with our team. Any questions that you have, we can take it from there, because I know you have to go to work.

It's really a pleasure talking to you, my brother. Look, Islam is a very simple thing. We just gotta take it step by step, inshallah. I'll also send you that video I told you about that has evidences for Islam. All right. Nice meeting you. Yeah. See you. Yes, yes. All right. I'll let you go to work. Thank you for your time. Yeah. Bye. Bye. Bye. See you.